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How does the sales force sell Adu and sleep well at night??

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anonymous said:
I have no problem putting aside my values, morals and principles when it comes to putting food on the table for my children you bastard!!!
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People who think like this obviously aren’t touched by Alzheimer’s disease in their family. Promoting an FDA approved product to help a patient population that has no answers is not compromising values, morals, or principles. You don’t work here. That much is clear. Otherwise you’d know how stupid your comments are.
 




You sound like the kind of person who supports mask mandates & lock downs b/c that’s what your gov’t tells you to do. Since the gov’t approved this crap ass drug it must be good (following your loser logic). Sorry you are incapable of having any kind of independent thought on your own. You are sad sack of horse squeeze.
 




anonymous said:
People who think like this obviously aren’t touched by Alzheimer’s disease in their family. Promoting an FDA approved product to help a patient population that has no answers is not compromising values, morals, or principles. You don’t work here. That much is clear. Otherwise you’d know how stupid your comments are.
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56k with no demonstrated efficacy. Stop thinking like you are on the moral high ground. Biogen sells drugs for financial rewards (a nice side effect is patients CAN benefit), insurance companies deny and delay coverage to reduce spending, and doctors for the most part in my mind are the only ones whose incentives are roughly aligned with the patient (although they do have some financial incentives). Drug companies will sell bad drugs, they will jack up prices for wall street (usage goes down but revenue still increases 10 percent), they will engage in ridiculous games and deals to extend patent timelines and exclusivity. Insurance companies (and governments) will set up labyrinth systems all meant to dissuade the physician or patient from pushing through... Denying valid claims until you (who can never understand the labyrinth) fight through them... All while pointing at someone else or even someone they chose to outsource through. And who uses fax machines any more... They do and apparently unreliable ones that lose 50 percent of transmissions. Doctors generally know their patients and for the most part want to do right for them in my experience. ( They fight the social services systems that are meant NOT to work as faceless bureaucrats clock out). They fight the insurance companies. And they do it even though there is no payment involved. Some dont. Some are burnt out. Many pick their fights. But many fight for their patient whose family they know... Who trust them).

The families and patients dont trust the insurance companies or drug companies. With good reason since those constructs are setup to lack personal exposure and for financial gain. Just stop it with the virtue signaling. Biogen didnt do this for the patient. Maybe you chose to work in something you feel will help the patient. But many doctors say you are wrong in the case of adu. And they are likely right that biogen is selling an ineffective drug with no proven efficacy (failed studies designed by biogen) at an absurd price (per adu supporting alz association). And most mds appear to be against adu use from the numbers out there.

You work for a business that is selling a drug that failed studies of their own design. Not a position to be on your moral high horse imo. Plenty of mds with patients who have alzheimers and people (mds included) with a history of alz in their families dont agree with you. But you knew that... Otherwise you wouldnt have just gone to the binary dismissive "stupid" argument.
 




anonymous said:
You sound like the kind of person who supports mask mandates & lock downs b/c that’s what your gov’t tells you to do. Since the gov’t approved this crap ass drug it must be good (following your loser logic). Sorry you are incapable of having any kind of independent thought on your own. You are sad sack of horse squeeze.
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I’m not sure how you made that leap. Obviously, you’ve got some issues to deal with and you’re looking to get in an argument with someone about mask mandates and vaccinations. Because, by your argument, promoting an FDA Approved drug must be immoral and unethical solely because the government approved it, right? That’s the dumbest fucking thing I think I’ve ever heard anyone say. Get back on Facebook - We don’t need you here.
 




anonymous said:
56k with no demonstrated efficacy. Stop thinking like you are on the moral high ground. Biogen sells drugs for financial rewards (a nice side effect is patients CAN benefit), insurance companies deny and delay coverage to reduce spending, and doctors for the most part in my mind are the only ones whose incentives are roughly aligned with the patient (although they do have some financial incentives). Drug companies will sell bad drugs, they will jack up prices for wall street (usage goes down but revenue still increases 10 percent), they will engage in ridiculous games and deals to extend patent timelines and exclusivity. Insurance companies (and governments) will set up labyrinth systems all meant to dissuade the physician or patient from pushing through... Denying valid claims until you (who can never understand the labyrinth) fight through them... All while pointing at someone else or even someone they chose to outsource through. And who uses fax machines any more... They do and apparently unreliable ones that lose 50 percent of transmissions. Doctors generally know their patients and for the most part want to do right for them in my experience. ( They fight the social services systems that are meant NOT to work as faceless bureaucrats clock out). They fight the insurance companies. And they do it even though there is no payment involved. Some dont. Some are burnt out. Many pick their fights. But many fight for their patient whose family they know... Who trust them).

The families and patients dont trust the insurance companies or drug companies. With good reason since those constructs are setup to lack personal exposure and for financial gain. Just stop it with the virtue signaling. Biogen didnt do this for the patient. Maybe you chose to work in something you feel will help the patient. But many doctors say you are wrong in the case of adu. And they are likely right that biogen is selling an ineffective drug with no proven efficacy (failed studies designed by biogen) at an absurd price (per adu supporting alz association). And most mds appear to be against adu use from the numbers out there.

You work for a business that is selling a drug that failed studies of their own design. Not a position to be on your moral high horse imo. Plenty of mds with patients who have alzheimers and people (mds included) with a history of alz in their families dont agree with you. But you knew that... Otherwise you wouldnt have just gone to the binary dismissive "stupid" argument.
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I see that you have some issues with the pharmaceutical industry, and you are using this specific instance to act as if everything that’s ever going wrong in pharmaceuticals is embodied in this one product. Nice try, but you’re just spewing at the mouth right now. Go somewhere else, troll.
 








Fine. Feel good about pushing a likely ineffective drug onto grannies and their families at significant cost to taxpayers (if payers reimburse) and families who are praying for help. This justification is no different than that used to justify sales of unproven therapies or by the average sales guy (granny paid her life savings for something worthless and she felt great about it. And i got a new car.). Except even worse the hook here is that they will get back something health related that they lost (and many would pay anything for that until they make peace with reality). All for some bank. Eventually, your smart ass body will likely fall victim to time and the same misincentives.

You just add the defense of fda approval (with an asterisk here for accelerated approval) to justify it. That is the only qualifier that doesnt also exist for any sales function preying on hope.

It can be better. Drug companies can and have done great things (covid, vaccines, synagis, aids, spinraza, enbrel, etc.). I think this is one that undermines those successes. Maybe ill be proven wrong in 9 yrs. Until then, per the VA

“While VA PBM acknowledges the recent FDA decision on aducanumab, given the lack of evidence of a robust and meaningful clinical benefit and the known safety signal, we recommend against offering this agent to patients with Alzheimer’s dementia (mild or otherwise) or mild cognitive impairment.

However, recognizing that there is an accelerated aducanumab FDA approval, we also recommend that if it is to be used by exception then it should be utilized only in highly selected patients by experts and centers that have the necessary diagnostic and management expertise - and only by those with the needed resources for close monitoring to assure safety.”

But if selling it makes you feel all warm inside, well ok.
 




"you are using this specific instance to act as if everything that’s ever going wrong in pharmaceuticals is embodied in this one product. "

1) Failed clinical trial per efficacy. I think one of the adcom reviewers said that switching placebo study groups mean the successful trial fails.

2) Biogen filing despite failed trial, failed futility analysis, and incomplete data due to terminated study. Add that fda statisticians disputed demonstration of efficacy except plaque clearance.

3) high price point

4) Have 9 years for confirmatory study statement by Michel. True but walked back later as will intend to finish earlier due to pushback.

5) mci advertising and premature scouting work in javelin. Aggressive if nothing else

6) pulling jama publication while simultaneously complaining about negative press and adcom members opinions but "welcoming debate"

7) Increasing payer power by pushing pretty far. Potential wider industry impact from escalating payer pushback.

8) Tightening of label in short period.

So no we havent seen price increases and patent games YET. But we have seen an aggressive irregular approval path with questionable advertising, high pricing, and questionable urgency towards demonstration of efficacy. 2 through 7 were all driven by biogen with 2 through 5 being industry problems. Of course it isnt a single example of all the problems in the system. But without clinical efficacy demonstration imo it reflects many problems

But you can just dismiss concerns and attack. And it may become a blockbuster and demonstrate efficacy. It hasnt to date and it may not.
 








As long as the paycheck is deposited every payroll period, the average Biogen sales rep isn't going to give a rat's ASS about how Adu was approved or if it actually works.
 




anonymous said:
"you are using this specific instance to act as if everything that’s ever going wrong in pharmaceuticals is embodied in this one product. "

1) Failed clinical trial per efficacy. I think one of the adcom reviewers said that switching placebo study groups mean the successful trial fails.

2) Biogen filing despite failed trial, failed futility analysis, and incomplete data due to terminated study. Add that fda statisticians disputed demonstration of efficacy except plaque clearance.

3) high price point

4) Have 9 years for confirmatory study statement by Michel. True but walked back later as will intend to finish earlier due to pushback.

5) mci advertising and premature scouting work in javelin. Aggressive if nothing else

6) pulling jama publication while simultaneously complaining about negative press and adcom members opinions but "welcoming debate"

7) Increasing payer power by pushing pretty far. Potential wider industry impact from escalating payer pushback.

8) Tightening of label in short period.

So no we havent seen price increases and patent games YET. But we have seen an aggressive irregular approval path with questionable advertising, high pricing, and questionable urgency towards demonstration of efficacy. 2 through 7 were all driven by biogen with 2 through 5 being industry problems. Of course it isnt a single example of all the problems in the system. But without clinical efficacy demonstration imo it reflects many problems

But you can just dismiss concerns and attack. And it may become a blockbuster and demonstrate efficacy. It hasnt to date and it may not.
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You seem to dislike the accelerated approval program for the FDA. Sorry. This isn’t the first or last drug to go that route. It’s used fur situations exactly like this one when there is a massive patient need and no potential solutions. I also see that you don’t like capitalism - we’ll charge what we think the market can bear, just like every company does, and change the price as necessary.

Again, if you had someone close to you who suffered with ALZ, you’d be excited for this.
 




anonymous said:
You seem to dislike the accelerated approval program for the FDA. Sorry. This isn’t the first or last drug to go that route. It’s used fur situations exactly like this one when there is a massive patient need and no potential solutions. I also see that you don’t like capitalism - we’ll charge what we think the market can bear, just like every company does, and change the price as necessary.

Again, if you had someone close to you who suffered with ALZ, you’d be excited for this.
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So cute. First, you vest the merit of adu as a product in fda regulatory approval. Second, you pull the capitalism argument for a conditional regulatory approval in a regulated industry for a product where government is likely to be an 80% payer. Lets also not forget Al and Billy be Done meeting to discuss accelerated approval per news report before telling the adcom it was not be considered. So cute
 




anonymous said:
So cute. First, you vest the merit of adu as a product in fda regulatory approval. Second, you pull the capitalism argument for a conditional regulatory approval in a regulated industry for a product where government is likely to be an 80% payer. Lets also not forget Al and Billy be Done meeting to discuss accelerated approval per news report before telling the adcom it was not be considered. So cute
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In English, please.
 








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