Help Please

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I’ve passed two tests for a sales position with Patterson and have been invited for a face-to-face interview. It’s my understanding that there is a base salary plus commission, with the idea that at some point reps transition over directly to commission.

I know very little about the territory or account base at this point. What types of questions should I be asking regarding the base of business? Additionally, my big question is what is a reasonable dollar amount for last year’s sales totals? I am coming from a long and successful B2B career and unfortunately don’t have a good frame of reference to understand what is ideal in this situation. The manager could tell me that the territory is currently generating $100,000 or $700,000 and I really wouldn’t know if either are good.

Any help from those in the know would be appreciated. I don’t interview often and don’t want to get sucked into something that’s not a good fit. I’m looking to earn around $100,000 / year within 2 to 3 years. Is this reasonable?

Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

I cannot answer your questions but you can answer mine. Can you give me an idea of what is on the tests. If you can give me some as example questions (or as many as you can remember) that would be great. Thank you in advance. I'm sure someone will answer your question soon.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I’ve passed two tests for a sales position with Patterson and have been invited for a face-to-face interview. It’s my understanding that there is a base salary plus commission, with the idea that at some point reps transition over directly to commission.

I know very little about the territory or account base at this point. What types of questions should I be asking regarding the base of business? Additionally, my big question is what is a reasonable dollar amount for last year’s sales totals? I am coming from a long and successful B2B career and unfortunately don’t have a good frame of reference to understand what is ideal in this situation. The manager could tell me that the territory is currently generating $100,000 or $700,000 and I really wouldn’t know if either are good.

Any help from those in the know would be appreciated. I don’t interview often and don’t want to get sucked into something that’s not a good fit. I’m looking to earn around $100,000 / year within 2 to 3 years. Is this reasonable?

Thanks

The most important question you should ask at a Paterson interview is "what happened to the previous rep covering the territory?"

That will set the stage for follow up questions based on that answer. If he says it's a "growth territory" or something along those lines, that means it is a new territory they are starting or a territory where a veteran left and the other reps picked it clean of the good stuff. It is VERY rare that Patterson will offer a healthy territory to a new rep. The other vets will always take the best offices and leave the "new guy" with scraps. They call it a "scratch" territory and it is usually producing less than $200k/year from a bunch of nothing offices they've been working on for years. They are usually small offices or Schein or another competetitor stronghold.

Don't expect to make a single dollar in commission the first year. You might make a few grand over the course of the first year but the way they pay you is based on you growing that scratch territory. You will spend the first year running around like crazy trying to get into any office you can to talk to someone. Supply sales is all about relationships so you will never just walk in and convert an office because they have to trust you first. Chances are, they are buying it somewhere else cheaper and Patterson will almost never be able to beat a competitor's price. It also isn't in your best interest since you are paid on margins.

Your base salary will cap out at $62k/year and that is with previous dental experience so expect something in the $50's and almost zero chance to make $70k first year. If you are able to convert a couple of offices that first year, you might make $75k second year. They will want you commission only after 2 years and if you haven't grown your territory to about $1.2 mil you won't be able to survive on commission only. Making $100k in 2-3 years isn't realistic, but it is possible if the stars align.

This job is ideal for someone in their mid 20's who's been busting their ass selling copiers or renting cars that is looking for something different. But you must put the work in or you won't last the 2 years.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

I cannot answer your questions but you can answer mine. Can you give me an idea of what is on the tests. If you can give me some as example questions (or as many as you can remember) that would be great. Thank you in advance. I'm sure someone will answer your question soon.

There is no way to prepare for the tests. Just think like a salesperson and you will do fine. The math part is what might slip some people up. Know how to calculate percentages and margins.

 

[former victim]

I don’t interview often and don’t want to get sucked into something that’s not a good fit.

Thanks

Think long and hard before you accept any position with Patterson as a Territory Rep. I did it, based on their promises, and it was tantamount to career-suicide for which Im still recovering. Do not believe their Bull---t. You will be given a scratch territory, or a territory that is full of dead-accounts and non producers. Unless you know a rep who is retiring then you will NOT be given decent accounts. All decent dental accounts will have been picked over by the other veteran sales reps. Dental communities are very small. In every metro area, there are strong dental practices (all will have been assigned to other reps long ago), a bunch of dead beats, and newbies out of dental school. You will be assigned the later 2 types of accounts.

Insist on seeing your account list (which they will not give you lol) before you accept this position. This was my big mistake. I relied on what I they told me, in addition to what I saw other reps doing. And... make no mistake...I had 5 prior years of President Club winning sales experience IN Dental...! but Patterson BS'd me to get me in the door... I went through 4 months of training and BS only to be given a "territory list" of 64 accounts... 20 which were dead or non existent... 10 which were dental labs...and the other 24 which had either never done business with Patterson, had defaulted on payments, or would never consider paying high Patterson prices and are already buying cheapo supplies from the internet or worse, black market crap that made its way in to the country from Indonesia.

In other words: If you need quick $$ and want to work there for 6 months, and can stand 2 weeks of mindless training in freezing Minnesota, in order to get through 6 months to your next-gig...then go for it!!! but if you want a real career in dental sales: RUN. good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

BTW... to earn $100,000 grand on a commission only plan at Patterson, the territory needs to be producing $2 to $2.5 million in sales annually. In other words: You "aint" gonna get there in 3 years unless some veteran rep dies and leaves you his/her accounts in their will.

 

[Anonymous]

Think long and hard before you accept any position with Patterson as a Territory Rep. I did it, based on their promises, and it was tantamount to career-suicide for which Im still recovering. Do not believe their lies. You will be given a scratch territory, or a territory that is full of dead-accounts and non producers. Unless you know a rep who is retiring then you will NOT be given decent accounts. All decent dental accounts will have been picked over by the other veteran sales reps. Dental communities are very small. In every metro area, there are strong dental practices (all will have been assigned to other reps long ago), a bunch of dead beats, and newbies out of dental school. You will be assigned the later 2 types of accounts.

Insist on seeing your account list (which they will not give you lol) before you accept this position. This was my big mistake. I relied on what I they told me, in addition to what I saw other reps doing. And... make no mistake...I had 5 prior years of President Club winning sales experience IN Dental...! but Patterson lied to me to get me in the door... I went through 4 months of training and BS only to be given a "territory list" of 64 accounts... 20 which were dead or non existent... 10 which were dental labs...and the other 24 which had either never done business with Patterson, had defaulted on payments, or would never consider paying high Patterson prices and are already buying cheapo supplies from the internet or worse, black market supplies that made its way in to the country from Indonesia.

In other words: If you need quick $$ and want to work there for 6 months, and can stand 2 weeks of mindless training in freezing Minnesota, in order to get through 6 months to your next-gig...then go for it!!! but if you want a real career in dental sales: RUN. good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

I’m interviewing too.

I am in pharmaceutical sales right now and can’t stand the job. I’m making around 80 per year currently. I’m being told that the territory I would take over did around $400,000 last year. The rep just left and the manager has told me that he will not be handing off the accounts to other more tenured reps. He said I would have 100 accounts and after 6 months he would pull some nonperforming account and give me some new accounts that haven’t been called on by Patterson.

Any comments or thoughts?

 

[Anonymous]

it would depending on where you are interviewing. some of the managers will do that and others do not care but will promise you hopes and dreams. If I knew what state you were interviewing for, I could tell you if they were being honest. unfortunately some of the managers will tell lies here and there to get good talent on board. once the talent is with us, they normally stay because they burnt bridges elsewhere.

 

[Anonymous]

$400000 is nothing....especially with 100 accounts doing that much. In addition, there is no such thing as "accounts never called on by Patterson". Every dental market in the US is mature. This is a fact. The only "accounts never called on by Patterson" are dental students who have just graduated and are looking for work, or working as associates for larger practices that are already assigned to a Patterson rep. The manager is lying to you. They need bodies to get in and push Cerec and equipment to give those leads to the Cerec and Equipment reps... they also need bodies to cover local dental trade shows and local dental association meetings. The "rookies" (you) get those weak assignments. Ask that branch manager to show you the actual list of accounts that allegedly did $400K last year, before you believe his promises and take that job. Chances are, the list does not exist and/or he wouldnt show it to you anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

$400000 is nothing....especially with 100 accounts doing that much. In addition, there is no such thing as "accounts never called on by Patterson". Every dental market in the US is mature. This is a fact. The only "accounts never called on by Patterson" are dental students who have just graduated and are looking for work, or working as associates for larger practices that are already assigned to a Patterson rep. The manager is lying to you. They need bodies to get in and push Cerec and equipment to give those leads to the Cerec and Equipment reps... they also need bodies to cover local dental trade shows and local dental association meetings. The "rookies" (you) get those weak assignments. Ask that branch manager to show you the actual list of accounts that allegedly did $400K last year, before you believe his promises and take that job. Chances are, the list does not exist and/or he wouldnt show it to you anyway.

Exactly. He won't show you the list of accounts and I guarantee that the territory you are "taking over" wasn't doing $400k when the previous rep left. They've already taken the real Patterson accounts and given them to tenured reps and you are getting the "leftovers" plus 40 duds to get to 100 names. And you do realize that averages only $4k/office. That's AWFUL considering a standard dental practice is going to spend around $100k/year in various supplies.

The OP should stick with their $80k/year easy pharma job over Patterson anyday. You won't make $80k with Patterson unless you at least triple that territory which won't happen in the first 2 years.

 

[Anonymous]

I am in a similar situation as the above poster.

One question that I have is if they start you out with a salary of $57,000 and a small commission structure, how are you ever supposed to make the transition to straight commission-only without taking a big hit in income when you make that transition. What I mean is that if you are taking over a scratch territory (doing $200,000) and you do grow the territory to 1.2 million in 3 years, that only equates to around $65,000 per year on the commission-only plan. By that point won’t you be making significantly more than $65,000 per year with the base plus commission – since you’ve grown the territory so much year after year? Does this question make sense?


Any thoughts from the veterans with Patterson?

 

[Anonymous]

I am in a similar situation as the above poster.

One question that I have is if they start you out with a salary of $57,000 and a small commission structure, how are you ever supposed to make the transition to straight commission-only without taking a big hit in income when you make that transition. What I mean is that if you are taking over a scratch territory (doing $200,000) and you do grow the territory to 1.2 million in 3 years, that only equates to around $65,000 per year on the commission-only plan. By that point won’t you be making significantly more than $65,000 per year with the base plus commission – since you’ve grown the territory so much year after year? Does this question make sense?


Any thoughts from the veterans with Patterson?

The commission percentage changes. You go from making something like 7-8% of gross profit to getting like 22-24% of gross profit when you are all commission. The goal is to have the territory at a level that makes it almost an equal transition.

Either way, it is VERY tough in this market to turn a scratch territory into anything. If you do choose to work for Patterson, continue to look for a job because it is highly likely you will need one once you hit the 2 year mark.

 

[Anonymous]

I am in a similar situation as the above poster.

One question that I have is if they start you out with a salary of $57,000 and a small commission structure, how are you ever supposed to make the transition to straight commission-only without taking a big hit in income when you make that transition. What I mean is that if you are taking over a scratch territory (doing $200,000) and you do grow the territory to 1.2 million in 3 years, that only equates to around $65,000 per year on the commission-only plan. By that point won’t you be making significantly more than $65,000 per year with the base plus commission – since you’ve grown the territory so much year after year? Does this question make sense?


Any thoughts from the veterans with Patterson?

The starting commission for rookies is 5% of the gross profit margin...which typically is between 28-43% on most products sold by Patterson. This varies depending on what products are sold, what brands of sundries, equipment etc.

You are right to be concerned. When I was with Patterson, there were quite a few rookies that had reached that 3 year mark...and had done their best to kiss-a-- , lick boots to get scraps tossed down to them from veteran reps (in the form of some accounts here and there that veteran reps may give to you if they are sick of working with those accounts) + building up your own territory though busting your tail...

The problem is this: The bulk of your numbers in the first 3 years will be Cerec...and Cerec related products... if you are lucky enough to get some solid leads, and are able to convert them... the best rookie rep sold 4 Cerecs in one year in our area... and she was given those leads specifically by the regional manager who loved her...well that accounted for really only about $500K of her first year, and she did similar numbers in her second year with a slight increase of a few hundred thousand due to sundries increasing.

But her, and several others who had reached that magical 2-3 year mark...were still well below the 2-2.5 million that one needs to earn a good living ($80K or more earnings) as a commissioned only rep...

They were all pulling their hair out...because they knew they wouldnt make it.

** (Perhaps this is another reason why Patterson is looking for more Rookies...because the smart ones left after 3 years seeing the writing on the wall...its a continual churn with Patterson rookies)

Why is this? Well, as I wrote above: Dental Markets are MATURE...and the good accounts are long gone, repped by the senior reps, or by Shein, or other competitors....

With the proliferation of dental practices buying their sundries from online or cutline distributors... you will find as a new rookie...HOLY COW...PATTERSONS SUPPLIES ARE TYPICALLY 30-40% HIGHER THAN WHAT THEY ARE PAYING ELSEWHERE!!!! HOW DO I COMPETE WITH THAT??

You will find yourself trying to "Price Match" ... using Patterson Private Label brands (aka the generic stuff that Patterson pays other manufacturers to use) and trying to match those with the name brand items that your assigned accounts are currently paying 30-45% less from other dealers!

This will drive you nuts. You will find yourself spending hours and hours and hours going through your accounts sundry lists and trying to find an equivalent, that Patterson sells that is a comparable price (most often you will trying to plug the Private Label stuff because there is no way Patterson will match prices on the known label stuff)...

Your accounts simply will not accept that... and your Patterson Branch Manager, who typically is a pompous d-bag will be telling you "sell Cerec and Adec...those are the quickest ways to build your territory...blah blah blah... " while at the same time wondering why your sundry accounts are not growing...

This is why Patterson's sales are 70% equipment and only 30% supplies... there is no way a dental office will pay Patterson prices in this economy, unless they are already hooked in with Cerec, and a veteran rep who has been servicing their account for years and years...

well as a Rookie...you are not going to have this luxury...and will you be able to build those kind of numbers and relationships in 3 years, walking off the street from another non-dental industry? doubtful.... very doubtful unless you have a veteran rep who is retiring and will throw you his/her accounts...

In fact, the only way that a veteran sales rep should even consider Patterson...is if they already have a pipeline, iron clad agreement with a rep who is retiring who will turn over their accounts to them...

and...this wont happen if you are already not plugged in elsewhere as a dental rep with Dentsply etc... the Patterson dBag Branch Manager will not allow that transfer to happen to someone walking in off the street... he will otherwise just turn those accounts over to other veteran reps...

do you see the catch 22 here? Take a rookie job with patterson and you will be fighting an uphill climb vs. a) dbag Branch Manager who is not looking out for your best intrests b) declining sundry market share due to overpricing and non competitiveness c) the push for you to focus on Cerec and Equipment...which will take you at least one good year to get up to speed on alone d) the general sliminess that goes with the entire dealer sales industry... the under handed deals, sneakiness, even within your own branch....

its a losing proposition...and only one that you should take as a veteran sales rep in other industries...if you have no other choice and need a few months of guaranteed salary.... that is just how it is.

 

[Anonymous]

These previous posts are 100% correct and excellent advice. I worked for Patterson for 15
years. Do not forget you will have to pay your own expenses on Plan 3. That can be a serious amount of money. The days of making money in dental are over for the new reps. Unethical managers have destroyed this company from the inside out. Shady accounting and underhanded deals are a prerequisite for managers. It is sad to see a once thriving company so unethical with their employees. Remember whatever you build a manger can take away with lies and manipulation. Patterson Corporate needs to look at the lack of ethics of their managers. Look at the veterans who have been fired or left the company after years of service.