Earnings- Unmitigated Disaster

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anonymous

Guest
Did anyone read up the earnings rel eased today? We are a disaster!

All the Mumbai boys are going to be very angry this week and look for scale goats. Hold your guard!
Net profits margin 10% down
Profits - >50% down

All this because of us, not them!
Time to tell them they are A**H*
 












anonymous said:
Did anyone read up the earnings rel eased today? We are a disaster!

All the Mumbai boys are going to be very angry this week and look for scale goats. Hold your guard!
Net profits margin 10% down
Profits - >50% down

All this because of us, not them!
Time to tell them they are A**H*
Click to expand...

Street expects $40 million in annualized Ilumya sales. Can you imagine ?
I heard we spent over $100 million on TV ads alone, then add in sales and other marketing costs.
Not looking good.
 






anonymous said:
Street expects $40 million in annualized Ilumya sales. Can you imagine ?
I heard we spent over $100 million on TV ads alone, then add in sales and other marketing costs.
Not looking good.
Click to expand...

Let's see what gets discussed today after the long weekend. It not going to be nice. Brace for a terrible week. I wish we could extend the weekend by a few more days for things to calm down!
 






There is a ton of shady shit that is still to be determined. Loans to a distributor (owned in part by DS, and ran by a relative). Money is haphazardly flying around everywhere at the discretion of DS. Ilumya is the least of their worries, although they told investors that they expect steady growth through 2020.
 






anonymous said:
There is a ton of shady shit that is still to be determined. Loans to a distributor (owned in part by DS, and ran by a relative). Money is haphazardly flying around everywhere at the discretion of DS. Ilumya is the least of their worries, although they told investors that they expect steady growth through 2020.
Click to expand...

Sun CFO to resign
 






Abhays and Dilips BS on Ilumya and Cequa!!!
AG basically accepted that he is clueless about US markets, payers, market access and anything relevant to selling branded drugs!


Sir, first on Ilumya. Could you give us some color on how the formulary coverage is panning out for the drug?

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Dilip Shantilal Shanghvi, Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Limited - MD & Executive Director [3]

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Yes, Abhay maybe.

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Abhay Gandhi, Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Limited - CEO of North America Business [4]

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Yes, yes. This is Abhay. So formulary coverage is not a limiting factor for how we will perform with Ilumya in market. We are pretty satisfied with the coverage we have. And like I have said on the previous calls, the fact that the product is a medical benefit product has been useful for us to get the kind of formulary coverage that we desired.

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Neha Manpuria, JP Morgan Chase & Co, Research Division - Analyst [5]

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Sir, given that we've seen more launches in IL-23, doesn't formulary coverage become important? I understand the medical benefit, but wouldn't that, therefore, become more important with the launch of more IL-23s?

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Abhay Gandhi, Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Limited - CEO of North America Business [6]

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It does, but what I am trying to say, Neha, is that the current formulary coverage that we have would not put us in a noncompeting position with any of the other products in market. Also as I said in my readout, we have an early access program. So patients who had initially a difficulty in getting formulary coverage, we quickly put them in the early access program while we work towards getting coverage for the product and this has also helped us.

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Neha Manpuria, JP Morgan Chase & Co, Research Division - Analyst [7]

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Understood. And sir, my second question is the direct-to-consumer program that we've launched. Has that significantly helped the prescriptions after we have launched that program? I am just trying to understand, let's assume we discontinue that program, is there a risk that the prescriptions fall off? Have we seen a very sharp improvement after this program or that will be gradual, we'll get to know after a couple of months?

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Abhay Gandhi, Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Limited - CEO of North America Business [8]

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You are right actually because in any kind of DTC, there'll always be a lag between when you are first on air and when you expect to see results. Now we have been on air, like, for about 2.5 months now. But I have not received too many metrics where I can conclusively state one way or the other. Having said that, you don't do DTC for 3 months and then go off. So that's why we also said in the readout that for most of the coming fiscal, we will be definitely investing in DTC. And then looking at results, like you say, we will evaluate our strategy going forward.

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Operator [9]

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The next question is from the line of Chirag Dagli from HDFC Asset.

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Chirag Dagli, HDFC Asset Management Company Limited - Senior Equity Analyst [10]

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Sir, this DTC campaign, who is this targeted to? Is this to doctors, patients? Because I would imagine that the payer is a very critical component of what the patient gets prescribed, right?

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Dilip Shantilal Shanghvi, Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Limited - MD & Executive Director [11]

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True. I mean, the DTC campaign is essentially focused on the patient, of course. And as far as the payers are concerned, and we have a strong team in our market access group, which directly meets all the relevant stakeholders amongst all the payers and PBMs and the whole group that is involved in a decision-making. So DTC -- I mean, they would also get an opportunity to see our DTC campaign, but that's not the primary way of communicating with the payer group.

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Chirag Dagli, HDFC Asset Management Company Limited - Senior Equity Analyst [12]

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I'm just trying to evaluate the merit of a DTC, sir, because if the patient is not the decision-maker, then why would you go ahead? Because you were anyway detailing the doctor and getting...

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Abhay Gandhi, Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Limited - CEO of North America Business [13]

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You're right. I mean, I think the U.S. market in that sense is very different from many other markets that I have worked in. Almost every brand that is there in the psoriasis segment does DTC campaign and very significant one. And there is data, which I have seen, which basically says that patients do look at these ads. Their search, therefore, for very targeted information on the Internet goes up significantly. That initial data I have also seen for Ilumya. And then they also strike up conversations with their caregiver and doctors for what should be the best mode of treatment. So I think the market is completely different from most markets that we have operated in so far. And not doing DTC would have been a competitive disadvantage for us as compared to the IL-17s and IL-23s.

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Chirag Dagli, HDFC Asset Management Company Limited - Senior Equity Analyst [14]

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So it's not a given that CEQUA may also -- you may also have to do some DTC for CEQUA, it's not a given?

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Abhay Gandhi, Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Limited - CEO of North America Business [15]

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It's not a given. It will be something that we will evaluate for each product and looking at what works in a given segment or a particular therapy, we will make our decision, but it's not a given, you are right.
 






this is hilarious AG on EAP related Q, along with DS answer
So is it 2-year and 5-year is, I think, time of the launch?

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Abhay Gandhi, Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Limited - CEO of North America Business [87]

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Yes, from the time the patient goes on the EAP. So the program is more or less continuous. But from the time a patient gets their first EAP dose, it can go up to 2 years or 5 years depending on each company.

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Dilip Shantilal Shanghvi, Sun Pharmaceutical Industries Limited - MD & Executive Director [88]

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No. Abhay, I think you are putting a lot of fear in people. The percentage of people who actually go into this 2-year and 5-year is a very small percentage. It's most of the people who are -- no. I mean, in the sense that unconditional communication, they will form a judgment based on what they understand. So I think, Sameer, over lot of experience, people would have formed this process. And also many states, actually a large number of states in the U.S. have laws which make it compulsory for plans to reimburse a product even if it is not in the formulary if the doctor is satisfied that the patient is responding to the product. So there are methods by which you can force the system to reimburse your product.
 


















anonymous said:
That conversation on the earnings call is hilarious, very sad and alarming all at the same time.
Click to expand...

Yeah -
Dilip talkin’ about seeing an ad for Ilumya on TV while in the States (can’t you just picture him watching TV in his hotel room ???)
Then Abhay saying his wife saw the ad when she came to visit him and ‘she now knows what my job is about’. Well, you certainly didn’t sound like you knew your job on that earnings call.

I agree, it’s sad, and really alarming.

Both were so confused that they couldn’t correctly basic questions, and then they’re correcting each other !!!
 






Dilip is running a tight ship. 99.9% of the folks that left were fired for cause. We need to purge the rest that are currently under our radar. Make no mistake my friend, we WILL weed them out and terminate them.
 












anonymous said:
Dilip is running a tight ship. 99.9% of the folks that left were fired for cause. We need to purge the rest that are currently under our radar. Make no mistake my friend, we WILL weed them out and terminate them.
Click to expand...

He’s just stupid. That’s been proven.
And really ? I’d argue that no one has been weeded out, all those TMs, RSMs and both National Sales Directors who left in the past 30 days told you to go fuck yourself.
 






anonymous said:
Yeah -
Dilip talkin’ about seeing an ad for Ilumya on TV while in the States (can’t you just picture him watching TV in his hotel room ???)
Then Abhay saying his wife saw the ad when she came to visit him and ‘she now knows what my job is about’. Well, you certainly didn’t sound like you knew your job on that earnings call.

I agree, it’s sad, and really alarming.

Both were so confused that they couldn’t correctly basic questions, and then they’re correcting each other !!!
Click to expand...

Probably ran the Ilumya commercial during reruns of "Harold and Kumar Do White Castle".
 






anonymous said:
Dilip is running a tight ship. 99.9% of the folks that left were fired for cause. We need to purge the rest that are currently under our radar. Make no mistake my friend, we WILL weed them out and terminate them.
Click to expand...

Weed people out??? That is laughable. Sun isn't weeding ANYONE out. People are leaving here in droves like this place has contagious stage 4 cancer. Get it straight.
 






anonymous said:
He’s just stupid. That’s been proven.
And really ? I’d argue that no one has been weeded out, all those TMs, RSMs and both National Sales Directors who left in the past 30 days told you to go fuck yourself.
Click to expand...

Ah, but in their mind, they’ve convinced themselves massive resignations are a good thing. It’s cost savings and that’s what it’s all about.
 












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