CEO's are ready for Titan Medical's robot

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Anonymous

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While I was at the Airport yesterday I ran into one of my CEO's of a very respectable hospital that I use to work with during our BDM's. During our conversations about the continued success of their program which has 3 robots, she asked me what my thoughts of Titan Medical being able to come out with a competitor to da Vinci. After I gave my thoughts, she replied that even though she has had a good relationship with Intuitive, she as well as many other CEO's are ready for a competitor to da Vinci.

I think the market is primed for a competitor to ISRG. Any thoughts on who would be first to Market if not Titan?
 






There are a lot of other robots out there. There is one out of Korea that is pretty far along. There is one out of Italy and another one from Germany that are in the early stages.

The US is maxed out so if Korea is able to penetrate Asia and other emerging markets, ISI is hosed.
 






Anonymous said:
There are a lot of other robots out there. There is one out of Korea that is pretty far along. There is one out of Italy and another one from Germany that are in the early stages.

The US is maxed out so if Korea is able to penetrate Asia and other emerging markets, ISI is hosed.
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Absolute idiot. I'm just an investor and not an employee, but ISI is not at all "hosed". The patents that ISI holds that developed the da Vinci system are not going anywhere. Every other country that was mentioned earlier in this thread bought a da Vinci or 2 from ISI and disassembled it to find out how to build a robot. They then used parts from a bunch of companies to design a me-too robot. Sure, whoever comes to market with a robot will have a product to sell. But what did those foreign companies do to bring a valuable device to the healthcare market? Nothing!

ISI designs and builds its robots from the ground up here. These other me-too wanna be companies will fight huge manufacturing battles, assembly battles and engineering troubleshooting battles. It'll be a while before there is an actual viable competitor.

As I said, I'm and investor so I have Titan and other robotics companies in my stock portfolio but ISI will lead the way for many years to come. I'd push in my chips at the blackjack table on ISI, not foreign me-too's.
 






Anonymous said:
Absolute idiot. I'm just an investor and not an employee, but ISI is not at all "hosed". The patents that ISI holds that developed the da Vinci system are not going anywhere. Every other country that was mentioned earlier in this thread bought a da Vinci or 2 from ISI and disassembled it to find out how to build a robot. They then used parts from a bunch of companies to design a me-too robot. Sure, whoever comes to market with a robot will have a product to sell. But what did those foreign companies do to bring a valuable device to the healthcare market? Nothing!

ISI designs and builds its robots from the ground up here. These other me-too wanna be companies will fight huge manufacturing battles, assembly battles and engineering troubleshooting battles. It'll be a while before there is an actual viable competitor.

As I said, I'm and investor so I have Titan and other robotics companies in my stock portfolio but ISI will lead the way for many years to come. I'd push in my chips at the blackjack table on ISI, not foreign me-too's.
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Let me quess, you have an Etrade account & you think you are an 'investor'? ISI outsources half it's design and isn't building anything from the ground up. No one cares if they are buying a 'me too' product. Samsung is killing Apple and 'me tooing' it to the bank.
 












Anonymous said:
Absolute idiot. I'm just an investor and not an employee, but ISI is not at all "hosed". The patents that ISI holds that developed the da Vinci system are not going anywhere. Every other country that was mentioned earlier in this thread bought a da Vinci or 2 from ISI and disassembled it to find out how to build a robot. They then used parts from a bunch of companies to design a me-too robot. Sure, whoever comes to market with a robot will have a product to sell. But what did those foreign companies do to bring a valuable device to the healthcare market? Nothing!

ISI designs and builds its robots from the ground up here. These other me-too wanna be companies will fight huge manufacturing battles, assembly battles and engineering troubleshooting battles. It'll be a while before there is an actual viable competitor.

As I said, I'm and investor so I have Titan and other robotics companies in my stock portfolio but ISI will lead the way for many years to come. I'd push in my chips at the blackjack table on ISI, not foreign me-too's.
Click to expand...

The patents run out in 2013.
 


















Anonymous said:
Absolute idiot. I'm just an investor and not an employee, but ISI is not at all "hosed". The patents that ISI holds that developed the da Vinci system are not going anywhere. Every other country that was mentioned earlier in this thread bought a da Vinci or 2 from ISI and disassembled it to find out how to build a robot. They then used parts from a bunch of companies to design a me-too robot. Sure, whoever comes to market with a robot will have a product to sell. But what did those foreign companies do to bring a valuable device to the healthcare market? Nothing!

ISI designs and builds its robots from the ground up here. These other me-too wanna be companies will fight huge manufacturing battles, assembly battles and engineering troubleshooting battles. It'll be a while before there is an actual viable competitor.

As I said, I'm and investor so I have Titan and other robotics companies in my stock portfolio but ISI will lead the way for many years to come. I'd push in my chips at the blackjack table on ISI, not foreign me-too's.
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Well, at least since you are in investor if ISI your perspective, information and opinions would not be biased. Thanks for sharing your obviously unbiased information with the group.

BTW, in the very rare event you were actually an investor, which I am 99% sure you are not, your post makes 0 sense from a business and market penetration perspective for many many reasons.
 












As investing goes, I'm about as small-time as it gets. I don't own any ISRG, but I do have a small stake in Titan based on speculation that the first viable competitor to ISI will do relatively well based just on that fact. However, I have been in OR device sales for over 10 years and have seen the balance of power shift significantly towards products and companies that provide economic value in addition to superior clinical outcomes. Surgeons may enjoy the better visualization and range of motion provided by daVinci (not to mention being able to sit down for several hours) but, at this point, there really isn't any compelling clinical evidence that outcomes are better than straight stick laparoscopy.

This might not be an issue if the cost were the same, but the fact is that robotic procedures are substantially more expensive on average. Forget about the $2500000 capital acquisition cost and the annual service contract, I've seen invoices for their disposables. Just openning the drape for the robotic arms and camera (basically a plastic bag that covers the robot and maintains sterility) and all the other disposable accessories needed for the case is at least $2000, and all that stuff gets opened before they ever even attach the endowrist instruments that cost $240 (and up) per surgery. This is all in addition to the set up costs incurred for a normal surgery. I don't care how you spin it, there is no f-ing way this is even close to being cost neutral for the hospital versus traditional laparoscopy. Google the Pasic study from Journal of Minimally Invasive Gynecology if you want details.

Ultimately, daVinci is amazing technology that is innovating surgical care and robotics will always have a place in the OR. ISRG has seen tremendous growth and made investors a lot of money, but at this point, every hospital in my city already has two daVinci systems and they are booking silly cases on them (lysis of adhesions, oophrectomy, lap chole) just so they don't sit idle...gotta justify that huge capital outlay. I've had more than one OR director tell me that they're losing money on their robotic program, but have to keep it going to be competitive with other hospitals. Not a sustainable business model for the long term, in my opinion. I think a lot of the points made in the Citron article will prove to be prophetic, and we haven't even begun to feel the effects of Obamacare. All makes me wonder why so many analysts list ISRG as a buy.
 












Anonymous said:
As investing goes, I'm about as small-time as it gets. I don't own any ISRG, but I do have a small stake in Titan based on speculation that the first viable competitor to ISI will do relatively well based just on that fact. However, I have been in OR device sales for over 10 years and have seen the balance of power shift significantly towards products and companies that provide economic value in addition to superior clinical outcomes. Surgeons may enjoy the better visualization and range of motion provided by daVinci (not to mention being able to sit down for several hours) but, at this point, there really isn't any compelling clinical evidence that outcomes are better than straight stick laparoscopy.

This might not be an issue if the cost were the same, but the fact is that robotic procedures are substantially more expensive on average. Forget about the $2500000 capital acquisition cost and the annual service contract, I've seen invoices for their disposables. Just openning the drape for the robotic arms and camera (basically a plastic bag that covers the robot and maintains sterility) and all the other disposable accessories needed for the case is at least $2000, and all that stuff gets opened before they ever even attach the endowrist instruments that cost $240 (and up) per surgery. This is all in addition to the set up costs incurred for a normal surgery. I don't care how you spin it, there is no f-ing way this is even close to being cost neutral for the hospital versus traditional laparoscopy. Google the Pasic study from Journal of Minimally Invasive Gynecology if you want details.

Ultimately, daVinci is amazing technology that is innovating surgical care and robotics will always have a place in the OR. ISRG has seen tremendous growth and made investors a lot of money, but at this point, every hospital in my city already has two daVinci systems and they are booking silly cases on them (lysis of adhesions, oophrectomy, lap chole) just so they don't sit idle...gotta justify that huge capital outlay. I've had more than one OR director tell me that they're losing money on their robotic program, but have to keep it going to be competitive with other hospitals. Not a sustainable business model for the long term, in my opinion. I think a lot of the points made in the Citron article will prove to be prophetic, and we haven't even begun to feel the effects of Obamacare. All makes me wonder why so many analysts list ISRG as a buy.
Click to expand...

The analysts have a hidden agenda. They are almost always wrong (i.e. Facebook, AIG, Citibank) and yet somehow get a free pass. Remember Jim Cramer crying? Total show. They own, or are considering buying, certain stocks or groups of stocks, so they paint a rosier picture of them in order to influence the market. Watch them start to cash out this year and pretend to not have 'seen it coming'. Large insider trading (Lonnie cashing out 50 million) is the first sign of things to come. There's a reason why they are required to disclose this to the SEC. The executives know what's coming down the line.
 






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