Not sure if this is a stretch. . . but in today's cost containment (dropping prices) the only other justification I see is the letting the fat be trimmed, downsizing rep #s, and companies keeping the best reps with clinical experience to support the surgeries that really need a rep there. Not a box opener. Can/when does an ortho implant reps provide true clinical value?
Can an ortho implant justify their value based on clinical outcomes?
- Thread starter Anonymous
- Start date
-
- Tags
- None
Clinical value? Rarely. Most all orthopedic surgeons can diagnose and get through a case w/o a rep. Knowing their sets inside and out to aid the crappy surgeon who almost never takes call? 20% of the time. Interesting topic, but I'm sure youre going to get the chest thumping Synthes/Stryker rep trying to justify their existence on here.
Don't forget the scrub nurse that has put together the set 15,000 times but somehow still can't figure it out without their hand being held and a soft tone of voice from the rep
A few reps actually provide clinical and product insight peri-operativly; orthopedic, neuro, endovascular, TAVR and robotic. To what amount of benefit they provide to the surgeon is on a case by case basis. Unfortunately for us a long tenured nurse or tech can be clinically equivalent or superior to a experienced rep and would be willing to run cases for contactually obligated hospitals for much less. Limiting access is not necessarily a bad thing, it's just a change. Find new avenues to sell your widget and expose all opportunities to close. I think you will see many poor and mediocre reps be displaced, but those in the top 10-20% will still earn a significant income. I have been earning 175-400k since I was 23, now 30 and still cruising.
It might be a stretch but a rep may show some value in OR efficiency/flow. A few minutes lost each case due to a scrub tech or nurse searching for the correct instrumentation can add up.
Obviously this doesn't apply to a bunion case but if a rep can save 30 minutes in a 3-4 hour case there is some real value to a hospital.
Obviously this doesn't apply to a bunion case but if a rep can save 30 minutes in a 3-4 hour case there is some real value to a hospital.
Agreed. . . but without a "white paper" or some other study, people might not believe it. But just based on experience and being there I know in many cases an active/involved rep helping the techs does make the OR flow more efficiently, shaving off minutes here and there.
I for one don't wish for the "rep-less" model, but unfortunately I'm confident that's where we're headed. Maybe not in the short term, but I would guess that the trend starts to take hold and will be pretty widespread in practice within the next 10-15 years.
Argue all you want for or against, but in my opinion the real problem is that far too many sales people think their "value" as clinical. As one person above wrote, the top true "sales" people will continue to do well. As a sales rep, your value to the company is just that - to SELL. And unfortunately, our sales forces in medical devices have become predominately focused on refilling instrument trays and opening boxes than actually doing the difficult work of "selling". Think about it - how much business did you actually CREATE on your own vs. inherit? How many loyal customers do you have that you work with routinely? For most reps in ortho/trauma/sports/spine it's not more than a handful - 10 would be a lot for most reps. But if you're actually selling, then you're out prospecting new potential customers, managing your sales funnel, etc. All the classic labor of selling that our industry has become complacent at. If you are in fact actually out there selling, of course it becomes a balancing act between generating new business and managing your time to be able to service customers.
The best model I've found is one that allows me to sell and then hire junior reps to open boxes and stock trays. But true selling's not for everyone. The world needs box openers and ditch diggers too, Danny.
Argue all you want for or against, but in my opinion the real problem is that far too many sales people think their "value" as clinical. As one person above wrote, the top true "sales" people will continue to do well. As a sales rep, your value to the company is just that - to SELL. And unfortunately, our sales forces in medical devices have become predominately focused on refilling instrument trays and opening boxes than actually doing the difficult work of "selling". Think about it - how much business did you actually CREATE on your own vs. inherit? How many loyal customers do you have that you work with routinely? For most reps in ortho/trauma/sports/spine it's not more than a handful - 10 would be a lot for most reps. But if you're actually selling, then you're out prospecting new potential customers, managing your sales funnel, etc. All the classic labor of selling that our industry has become complacent at. If you are in fact actually out there selling, of course it becomes a balancing act between generating new business and managing your time to be able to service customers.
The best model I've found is one that allows me to sell and then hire junior reps to open boxes and stock trays. But true selling's not for everyone. The world needs box openers and ditch diggers too, Danny.
Excellent info that all implant reps should read! And like the Judge Smails (?) reference
Some really good thoughts on this thread. Totally agree with "selling vs. maintaining" comparison. Although most cases can probably be done without a rep, a major screwup for one case can potentially cost the hospital a ton. Be it a missing set, missing implant, some process gone wrong where the case goes to shit or has to be canceled. That poses an enormous risk to the hospital.
Another defense for reps is the amount of work we may put in and don't get compensated for. The last minute cases where we deliver sets and implants in hours and the case cancels in preop. Or the difficult extraction cases we don't see a dollar from. Or the possible revision cases where nothing is used or one small implant is used and you end up making little or no money on the case.
I am not naive and think hospitals would be shut down or surgeons can't do cases without reps. However a good rep does provide value to surgeons and facilities. I think the problem is the quantity of the reps and the over reliance on the reps that provide zero value. I can also see a consolidation of reps with companies. I.E. stryker ortho reps also selling instruments/ beds etc. Same for trauma/ joints/ sports medicine. Interesting discussion.
Another defense for reps is the amount of work we may put in and don't get compensated for. The last minute cases where we deliver sets and implants in hours and the case cancels in preop. Or the difficult extraction cases we don't see a dollar from. Or the possible revision cases where nothing is used or one small implant is used and you end up making little or no money on the case.
I am not naive and think hospitals would be shut down or surgeons can't do cases without reps. However a good rep does provide value to surgeons and facilities. I think the problem is the quantity of the reps and the over reliance on the reps that provide zero value. I can also see a consolidation of reps with companies. I.E. stryker ortho reps also selling instruments/ beds etc. Same for trauma/ joints/ sports medicine. Interesting discussion.
So riddle me this batman. Why is it, that in Europe, reps are virtually non-existent and the hospitals/surgeons can get by w/o reps day in and day out?
same in Canada. for SYK at least one rep carries multiple lines and covers a large geography. I imagine it's a busy job but you spend more time converting business and training surgeon/staff on your stuff
It's because the majority of techs are morons/lazy imbeciles. Not that it's our issue, but on the low end, they're making 45k. I know here in the NE some are making upwards of 90k, but on the average, they aren't going to do more work for the same amount of pay. It's like Welfare/Food stamps. The sales reps are their "entitlement program."