B&L Organic growth claims

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Anonymous

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Hi everybody,

Question from a Valeant shareholder.

A big contentious point that us shareholders have been dealing with when trying to assess Valeant's performance is the various growth claims they make. But the problem is that their financial disclosures never include actual sales numbers like other Pharma companies do.

So I thought, I'd just come here and ask you guys directly and see if I can get a general sense.

Based on your territory results does Valeant's claim that B&L has been growing at a 12% rate at least since they took over the company sound right? Can you give me a bit of color as to what your sense of growth or lack thereof is under Valeant?
I'm also adding a quick poll if you don't mind so we can look at numbers.

IMPORTANT: Please, all this loses any value if it quickly turns into people insulting each other's mothers and acting like kids, all it does is take away all the credibility. Just want an honest adult opinion from those who don't mind sharing.

Thanks.
 






Couldn't add the poll to the thread, not sure why so I'll just manually go through your answers, for those who don't mind answering.

1 - Yes. Growth numbers sound about right.
2 - Growing but most likely below what is reported
3 - No. Not growing and possibly declining.

Thanks again.
 






Hate to say, but it's #3 all day long. Haven't figured out how Valeant gets away with reporting financials unlike anyone else in the industry, but can't help but think they do it to hide the inevitable declines that occur when you fire half of the support, IT, and R+D organizations. With these guys I have learned that if things arent clear, there is a reason for it.
 






Come on. Just ask yourself, what is it that Valeant has done to spur this incredible growth? 12%? What have they added to make such dramatic sales improvements? What expertise do they have outside of M&A and creative accounting.

All they've done to B+L is gut it and loot it. They've destroyed morale and turned the culture sour. Employees don't even have visibility to targets and sales performance. Those metrics were very clear prior to Valeant. Why is that? I think it's telling.
 






I am new here so I have no allegiance. I have seen the growth. My territory is growing incredibly -in fact, faster than I want! It all depends on which part of the rankings you're on .

My surgical reps are growing their business, and so are the contact lens reps in my area. I'm certain, like any other company, there are territories that are not-that's why they give you the overall average growth.

So, to answer your question, when i analyze the numbers put forth, at this point I believe what they are telling us. The real question is, is that enough? Yes! Because they are not doing it by raising prices to the consumer.

My experience with Allergan's growth falls greatly in the continued price hikes to show more $. Look at product volume too. You also have to consider price because on the flip side, Alcon can 'up' their volume and claim growth, but they do this by giving it away free. Bausch seems to be in the middle and honest. Steady growth at reasonable prices.
 












From the day they bought B+L they were very creative about the growth figures..
B+L contact lenses were at number 4 in the market and still are...and with a large part of the sales being in that then it makes that 12% growth look a best a dream...
Take all Valeant numbers with huge scepticism....why would they tell the truth with those when they lie with everything else ?
 






Overall every meaningful trend looks worse after valeant came in.
Simple: look at the variables of what changed and compare positive ones vs negative ones.
Does growth normally increase or decrease after you terminate most of a company and it's r&d?
Would most top reps stay or go?
Do you think they view themselves as part of the team who are listened to, do they view a positive future?
Once valeant has another eye company to merge with then they can really start downsizing sales, that's why they did not do too much on the sales side yet?

Any growth overall is from price increases which valeant does more aggressively than most.
 






Are the numbers real?
Yes
Do they have a single thing to do with Valeant?
No
Valeant Purchased a company that had products just hitting the market or about to hit the market. The organic growth was paid for in R&D for the last 5+ years. Bausch will grow for the next 2-5 years (because of Warburg funded projects) and then decline because of Valeant.
 






Anonymous said:
Are the numbers real?
Yes
Do they have a single thing to do with Valeant?
No
Valeant Purchased a company that had products just hitting the market or about to hit the market. The organic growth was paid for in R&D for the last 5+ years. Bausch will grow for the next 2-5 years (because of Warburg funded projects) and then decline because of Valeant.
Click to expand...

Not at 12%
 






Not aware of sales figures, valeant keep them to themselves but there has been no increase in lens production. Actually since being sold to valeant the production forecast has declined, the Biotrue Oneday lens production in particular has been cut by 20% of expected output. There may be growth but it's not in the contact lens segment.
 






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