Thank you KK! Finally a fair appraisal process

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Anonymous said:
Is it really fair? Think people! Yes if you have higher share yes your volume growth should be less but not lose market share. Think people if some of our biggest volume markets with high shares cAn't hold onto share and ride a volume wave that wave will crash and then you are hurting the NBU but to pay people who are losing share because we are only about volume prevents the NBU from hitting our exit market share for the year. Yet KK is paying some of these people the biggest bonuses and saying they are top performers is not accurate. Take a look people is your vyvanse out pacing your market growth if not you are hurting us as a BU.
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In theory you are correct, however what you are forgetting is market share currently includes immediate release products. Immediate release is the fastest growing stimulant in the US. However, its not growing because of ADHD. Its growing because its used as a weight loss drug, nacolepsy drug, booster drug to other XR products, study drug and other off label indications. Therefore if your market is outpacing Vyvanse AND IR is as well...well then unless you start selling Vyvanse off label (which no one in their right mind would do) then your hands may be tied. We are trained to sell Vyvanse compliantly for a specific patient type. As KK mentioned, the amount of IR volume in each territory is not balanced. The amount of volume in general is not balanced. Therefore the only fair way to calculate MS growth is to take IR completely from the numbers.
 






Anonymous said:
Is it really fair? Think people! Yes if you have higher share yes your volume growth should be less but not lose market share. Think people if some of our biggest volume markets with high shares cAn't hold onto share and ride a volume wave that wave will crash and then you are hurting the NBU but to pay people who are losing share because we are only about volume prevents the NBU from hitting our exit market share for the year. Yet KK is paying some of these people the biggest bonuses and saying they are top performers is not accurate. Take a look people is your vyvanse out pacing your market growth if not you are hurting us as a BU.
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You are an idiot.
 






Anonymous said:
Hey you dumb ass Yankee who has their head stuck so far up Obamas ass you can't see the real world. You keep hanging out on cafepharma putting down southerners and we will keep selling the hell out of Vyvanse and making the big bucks. The President club trips have been amazing and its ashame you will never attend one because you can't sell shit. I can assure you my house is bigger and nicer than yours considering you make $60000 a year and we pull in $140k. Oh and by the way I have a full mouth of teeth so keep talkin.......
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Thank you, just proved how stupid you are about this industry and probably life in general

Enjoy the reality shows in your state
 






Anonymous said:
In theory you are correct, however what you are forgetting is market share currently includes immediate release products. Immediate release is the fastest growing stimulant in the US. However, its not growing because of ADHD. Its growing because its used as a weight loss drug, nacolepsy drug, booster drug to other XR products, study drug and other off label indications. Therefore if your market is outpacing Vyvanse AND IR is as well...well then unless you start selling Vyvanse off label (which no one in their right mind would do) then your hands may be tied. We are trained to sell Vyvanse compliantly for a specific patient type. As KK mentioned, the amount of IR volume in each territory is not balanced. The amount of volume in general is not balanced. Therefore the only fair way to calculate MS growth is to take IR completely from the numbers.
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Fair point. But how then do you explain those territories and regions who have been growing share and volume ahead of the market that are not at goal attainment? There are many where this bas been happening all year and most of it in the north. The comp system is alot better than 3-4 years ago but still very flawed.
 






Anonymous said:
Fair point. But how then do you explain those territories and regions who have been growing share and volume ahead of the market that are not at goal attainment? There are many where this bas been happening all year and most of it in the north. The comp system is alot better than 3-4 years ago but still very flawed.
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The managed care adjustment screwed alot of territories.
 












Anonymous said:
Fair point. But how then do you explain those territories and regions who have been growing share and volume ahead of the market that are not at goal attainment? There are many where this bas been happening all year and most of it in the north. The comp system is alot better than 3-4 years ago but still very flawed.
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For the territories out growing the market and still not at goal attainment. Look at your goal report. See the number where it says "managed care adjustment"? If you subtract that number from your overall goal, would you be at goal? Yes, I would. CES screwed the sales force by adding this bogus calculation into the sales goal attainment process.
 






Anonymous said:
Is it really fair? Think people! Yes if you have higher share yes your volume growth should be less but not lose market share. Think people if some of our biggest volume markets with high shares cAn't hold onto share and ride a volume wave that wave will crash and then you are hurting the NBU but to pay people who are losing share because we are only about volume prevents the NBU from hitting our exit market share for the year. Yet KK is paying some of these people the biggest bonuses and saying they are top performers is not accurate. Take a look people is your vyvanse out pacing your market growth if not you are hurting us as a BU.
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Higher market share in most cases means better insurance coverage. Say what you want, but your sales skills are only second to your products coverage. The reason some of the biggest volume markets can't hold onto share and ride out the volume wave is because with Obama care they are all starting to feel the same pain us in other less fortunate, more restricted regions have felt all along. Feel the pain, suckas. F*&k the South.
 






Anonymous said:
For the territories out growing the market and still not at goal attainment. Look at your goal report. See the number where it says "managed care adjustment"? If you subtract that number from your overall goal, would you be at goal? Yes, I would. CES screwed the sales force by adding this bogus calculation into the sales goal attainment process.
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Nope. No mgd care adjustment. It's bullshit and it all has to do with feeding the south.
 






Anonymous said:
Higher market share in most cases means better insurance coverage. Say what you want, but your sales skills are only second to your products coverage. The reason some of the biggest volume markets can't hold onto share and ride out the volume wave is because with Obama care they are all starting to feel the same pain us in other less fortunate, more restricted regions have felt all along. Feel the pain, suckas. F*&k the South.
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Most logical post yet.

But I thought KK was supposed to fix this though? Isn't that what she said on stage in New Orleans? Guess she thought Abbvie would take care of it. whoops!
 






Anonymous said:
Is it really fair? Think people! Yes if you have higher share yes your volume growth should be less but not lose market share. Think people if some of our biggest volume markets with high shares cAn't hold onto share and ride a volume wave that wave will crash and then you are hurting the NBU but to pay people who are losing share because we are only about volume prevents the NBU from hitting our exit market share for the year. Yet KK is paying some of these people the biggest bonuses and saying they are top performers is not accurate. Take a look people is your vyvanse out pacing your market growth if not you are hurting us as a BU.
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What makes the company more money volume or exit marketshare? Of course there is other factors like profitability but since you only brought up share and volume, lets talk about that. Marketshare is only important in a decling or flat market. The ADHD market is not a declining market. For a second there it sounds as if you are suggesting the company should pay territories just for holding on to share? That is the surest way to spot a failing product, market and company.
 






Anonymous said:
What makes the company more money volume or exit marketshare? Of course there is other factors like profitability but since you only brought up share and volume, lets talk about that. Marketshare is only important in a decling or flat market. The ADHD market is not a declining market. For a second there it sounds as if you are suggesting the company should pay territories just for holding on to share? That is the surest way to spot a failing product, market and company.
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You do realize that increasing market share means you are increasing volume? (in a growing market) They are one in the same. Bottom line is people are riding a market volume wave, while actually losing share and pulling big bonuses for their "lack" of impact. This system needs an overhaul. And by the way, for the first 4-5 years of launch while growing the brand all reps were paid on market share. Remember the Victor and Harry days?
 






Anonymous said:
You do realize that increasing market share means you are increasing volume? (in a growing market) They are one in the same. Bottom line is people are riding a market volume wave, while actually losing share and pulling big bonuses for their "lack" of impact. This system needs an overhaul. And by the way, for the first 4-5 years of launch while growing the brand all reps were paid on market share. Remember the Victor and Harry days?
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Its typical to pay market share on a brand new product because every territory is starting at zero with typically the same coverage issues give or take a few rare states. As the sales progress the plan has to be adjusted. Otherwise you punish reps who grew share early and reward those who were late in the game. It is easy to grow a low share versus growing and even maintaining a higher share. Increasing share DOES NOT always mean increasing volume. If you go after volume you will increase profit margins (as long as you are not marking down the cost of the product significantly) If you go after share you will not always get volume. A simple test of this is to look at your vital signs and do a sort by share. How many of these doctors are you actually calling on? My guess? Not many because many of these doctors have the lowest volume. You rank your doctors by volume for a reason. The profit of the company is deterimend by volume growth not share. I do think the plan could use a overall, but I have to agree with the OP on this one.
 






Anonymous said:
You do realize that increasing market share means you are increasing volume? (in a growing market) They are one in the same. Bottom line is people are riding a market volume wave, while actually losing share and pulling big bonuses for their "lack" of impact. This system needs an overhaul. And by the way, for the first 4-5 years of launch while growing the brand all reps were paid on market share. Remember the Victor and Harry days?
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The goal attainment is made to calculate market share, volume and growth. All you are looking at is share and making a determination of the territory. You can not see the overall potential of a territory, access, formulary losses, formulary wins, cash patient profile, IR, XR, non stimulant usage, etc. These are all factored into the goal attainment.

The plan is not perfect, no plan is. But what I am hearing is just sour grapes from someone who is not keeping up with the potential of the territory and falling short of goal. Your market share or volume may be growing but according to the access and potential of the territory you should be growing faster.
 






Anonymous said:
Fair point. But how then do you explain those territories and regions who have been growing share and volume ahead of the market that are not at goal attainment? There are many where this bas been happening all year and most of it in the north. The comp system is alot better than 3-4 years ago but still very flawed.
Click to expand...

Is your ADHD market declining or growing slower than the national average? That would explain it. It's possible that you have aggressive goals but if thats the case just wait a quarter they always get adjusted.
 












Anonymous said:
Fair point. But how then do you explain those territories and regions who have been growing share and volume ahead of the market that are not at goal attainment? There are many where this bas been happening all year and most of it in the north. The comp system is alot better than 3-4 years ago but still very flawed.
Click to expand...

You are prob in a region with very favorable managed care.
 






Anonymous said:
Fair point. But how then do you explain those territories and regions who have been growing share and volume ahead of the market that are not at goal attainment? There are many where this bas been happening all year and most of it in the north. The comp system is alot better than 3-4 years ago but still very flawed.
Click to expand...

It's explained quite easily. When entire regions are growing Vyvanse faster than the market, faster than the Zone and faster than the nation it usually means one thing. Congratulations on your Affordable Care Act insurance win. Many states got hit very hard where other states had the states number one, two or multiple plans get a favorable (some free and prefered, no step edit) status. Do you think your goal should not reflect that big win?
 


















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