Can Sales Numbers Be Manipulated?

[anonymous]

I'm relatively new to pharmaceutical sales. I came from a completely different industry when I joined AZ. You knew your sales numbers were accurate and you could even confirm their accuracy with my previous company. With AZ I'm starting to wonder if my DSM isn't manipulating my numbers somehow? But I haven't been able to figure out the system or formula that AZ uses to give me credit for my Rxs. I'm not confident that my DSM is really giving me an honest explanation when I ask. My teammate's numbers are so much better than mine. How can there be that big of a difference between our numbers?

 

[anonymous]

I'm relatively new to pharmaceutical sales. I came from a completely different industry when I joined AZ. You knew your sales numbers were accurate and you could even confirm their accuracy with my previous company. With AZ I'm starting to wonder if my DSM isn't manipulating my numbers somehow? But I haven't been able to figure out the system or formula that AZ uses to give me credit for my Rxs. I'm not confident that my DSM is really giving me an honest explanation when I ask. My teammate's numbers are so much better than mine. How can there be that big of a difference between our numbers?

they are definitely inaccurate. Territories going to coe back to back where the reps are flat out horrible. We Confirmed at least 50 scripts coming from hcps that never showed up in data. Huge chunks of scripts coming out of sd Accounts being given all to one territory. The list goes on. When we ask questions we don’t get answers. All the numbers are complete bullshit. Everyone knows it but no one other than reps cares. Az makes it complicated on purposes they don’t want you to be able to figure it out.

 

[anonymous]

My, my, my. You are a newbie to this industry or you wouldn’t even be asking that question. The “data” comes from IMS or WK. it’s about 70% accurate on a great day. Listen to this statement grasshopper. All that matters is what AZ ships out their warehouse doors, and nothing else. If you happen to get credit, at least to the extent they can credit sales, good for you. If not, tough shit.

I retired with 30+ years with AZ. I knew several people in sales analytics over the years. I also sold Zoladex which was a buy-and -bill product where we sold units directly to offices, and had copies of invoices. You would think they could take a $5 calculator and just add up the invoices to give proper sales credit, but they couldn’t even get that right! No grasshopper, the data does not reflect what is taking place in a territory, but it is as accurate as it’s going to get. Just learn to live it as frustrating as it is.

 

[anonymous]

Realize also that many pharmacies, like Walmart, do not report their prescription data, so the data mining companies we buy the data from have to "estimate" sales based on the pharmacies that do report.

It's all an educated guess, really.

 

[anonymous]

Many years ago I was sitting down with a friend who was my competitor. Selling a very small volume product. We were doing the "no no" LOL of comparing data in our territories on individual providers on total nrx and rx mk share . Well as you can probably guess. My data showed he was knocking it out of the park. His data was showing I was kicking his butt. Even on individual providers we had totally opposite numbers for the same time periods down to the weekly data. We just kinda laughed it off and said well maybe it will all equal out. Lol Also do a search the case of a rep in Wisconsin who sued his company because they were doing the same to him and he had actual pharmacy raw script data from his pharmacy friends to back it up. He won his case in court BTW.

 

[anonymous]

My, my, my. You are a newbie to this industry or you wouldn’t even be asking that question. The “data” comes from IMS or WK. it’s about 70% accurate on a great day. Listen to this statement grasshopper. All that matters is what AZ ships out their warehouse doors, and nothing else. If you happen to get credit, at least to the extent they can credit sales, good for you. If not, tough shit.

I retired with 30+ years with AZ. I knew several people in sales analytics over the years. I also sold Zoladex which was a buy-and -bill product where we sold units directly to offices, and had copies of invoices. You would think they could take a $5 calculator and just add up the invoices to give proper sales credit, but they couldn’t even get that right! No grasshopper, the data does not reflect what is taking place in a territory, but it is as accurate as it’s going to get. Just learn to live it as frustrating as it is.

 

[anonymous]

Can a DSM access the system so that one rep in a territory gets Rx credit but the other (teammate) rep does not? I feel like that is happening.

 

[anonymous]

Managers don’t move customers, but you can check your HCP Universe to make sure the customer(s) you are referring to are included in the FSIP Universe. There are certain specialties that count for some teams “specialty” that don’t roll into PCx and vice versa. Hope that helps.

 

[anonymous]

Managers don’t move customers, but you can check your HCP Universe to make sure the customer(s) you are referring to are included in the FSIP Universe. There are certain specialties that count for some teams “specialty” that don’t roll into PCx and vice versa. Hope that helps.

Thank you. I'm just trying to figure this system out. I'm fine with my teammate doing better than myself as long as I don't fall too far down the rankings. My teammate seems to understand the AZ system but I can tell they are not comfortable revealing how everything works.

 

[anonymous]

Can a DSM access the system so that one rep in a territory gets Rx credit but the other (teammate) rep does not? I feel like that is happening.

The region leader receives the goal budget then divides that among the district. The DMs then allocate that somehow across the territories. No one knows the formula or the plus/minus parameters of how much a goal is allocated to a territory. All they will say is it’s based on past performance and potential.

 

[anonymous]

The region leader receives the goal budget then divides that among the district. The DMs then allocate that somehow across the territories. No one knows the formula or the plus/minus parameters of how much a goal is allocated to a territory. All they will say is it’s based on past performance and potential.

Not necessarily true. I know CBD's that have not EVER handed down goals to the DSM's to determine if they make sense at a territory level. I know this because I work for one as a DSM. My impression is that they manipulate the goal to help and/or hurt specific DSM's and thus their team. Sneaky and underhanded.

 

[anonymous]

Not necessarily true. I know CBD's that have not EVER handed down goals to the DSM's to determine if they make sense at a territory level. I know this because I work for one as a DSM. My impression is that they manipulate the goal to help and/or hurt specific DSM's and thus their team. Sneaky and underhanded.

Admittedly—I’ve been in the industry over 23 years. This may have been a practice that doesn’t apply anymore or may have been selling team specific. It all depends on the year and where a rep was working.

 

[anonymous]

Can a DSM access the system so that one rep in a territory gets Rx credit but the other (teammate) rep does not? I feel like that is happening.

No. Also, the issue with reporting is the same everywhere. No data is 100% accurate. As someone mentioned, some pharmacies don’t even report. Also, different companies buy from different companies - there is a third party that buys the data from pharmacies, compiles it, and then sells it to pharma companies. The more data you want, the higher the price. When it comes to goal setting, most managers don’t bother to understand the formula. You can usually get it from analytics if you have a manager that will ask for it, but most won’t bother because knowing it makes no difference. No matter how unfair you can prove it to be, it won’t get changed…at least not enough to make a significant difference. I have been on IC teams at multiple companies. At only one company have I ever had relatively “fair” IC, because we had an amazing analytics person who actually understood pharma sales and actually cared. Of course, she’s some senior VP of whatever at a large company now - and rightfully so. The rest of these idiot analyst/ops people are beyond clueless. All they care about is that the plan they come up with fits on a standard curve to appease the finance people who want the total IC to stay on budget.

 

[anonymous]

Not necessarily true. I know CBD's that have not EVER handed down goals to the DSM's to determine if they make sense at a territory level. I know this because I work for one as a DSM. My impression is that they manipulate the goal to help and/or hurt specific DSM's and thus their team. Sneaky and underhanded.

"My impression is that they manipulate the goal to help and/or hurt specific DSM's..."

Hmmm... So it would lead me to suspect that DSMs could also manipulate to help and/or hurt specific reps. My DSM really likes my teammate. My teammate has made it known that they want to become a manager. I'm just trying to figure out if this DSM is manipulating our territory numbers to help my teammate look better than myself?

I came from a sales background that was very straightforward. You either got the sale or you did not. Proof was always in the form or an order/purchase. I did very well in that environment where you either produced sales or you didn't. There was no mystery about your numbers or success. I entered pharmaceutical sales knowing a little about how a rep gets credit for their numbers. But the more I try to understand, the less I have confidence that it's a fair or transparent system. Don't get me wrong. It's good money; good benefits. But I'm not sure it is really a selling opportunity that lets you know YOU are actually driving business. I get that your manager and leadership lays it on the rep as if their success or lack of success is on them (the rep). However, I'm suspicious if that is actually true now that I've been on board for awhile.

 

[anonymous]

Admittedly—I’ve been in the industry over 23 years. This may have been a practice that doesn’t apply anymore or may

Oh, it definitely still applies.

 

[anonymous]

"My impression is that they manipulate the goal to help and/or hurt specific DSM's..."

Hmmm... So it would lead me to suspect that DSMs could also manipulate to help and/or hurt specific reps. My DSM really likes my teammate. My teammate has made it known that they want to become a manager. I'm just trying to figure out if this DSM is manipulating our territory numbers to help my teammate look better than myself?

I came from a sales background that was very straightforward. You either got the sale or you did not. Proof was always in the form or an order/purchase. I did very well in that environment where you either produced sales or you didn't. There was no mystery about your numbers or success. I entered pharmaceutical sales knowing a little about how a rep gets credit for their numbers. But the more I try to understand, the less I have confidence that it's a fair or transparent system. Don't get me wrong. It's good money; good benefits. But I'm not sure it is really a selling opportunity that lets you know YOU are actually driving business. I get that your manager and leadership lays it on the rep as if their success or lack of success is on them (the rep). However, I'm suspicious if that is actually true now that I've been on board for awhile.

Yes, they can but not intra-territory teams. If you have a counterpart that works directly with you, it will be the same goal. If you have another territory, then yes, moving objective around can be done to punish or set up for success.

 

[anonymous]

Admittedly—I’ve been in the industry over 23 years. This may have been a practice that doesn’t apply anymore or may have been selling team specific. It all depends on the year and where a rep was working.

It definitely still applies.