April 16, 2012 US Supreme Court Oral Day of Vindication

This is not true, the law firms will achieve no more than a 33.33% not the identified 50-70%.

Depends. But the poster you responded to is not knowledgeable about the law. I have not read the class action suit only this I hear on NPR (national public radio).

It doesn't really matter who wins or loses. Pharma is really never going to recover from mistakes that they should have addressed 20+ yrs ago.
 












i have mixed feelings about this.
On one hand I hope the suit gets dismissed. It will change pharma for the worse.

On the other hand I hope it stops those dreadful IE meetings that never amount to more than lectures from management & useless role plays.
There's only enough relevant material for a one day meeting.
But it never fails they always need 3 days.

Maybe being paid overtime for the senseless overnights would put a stop to senseless overnights.
Oh yeah, the forced dinners too.
 








Back in the days of launching Lipitor and Viagra many of us worked 50 hours a week, when you include the evening paperwork that had to be done at home. There was NO WiFi then, only dial up. Also, there were more LAT meetings, more POA"s, more training meetings and at least One Dinner Program a week.

I remember these days fondly. And those Rohrig guys used to get up early in the hospital to hound docs in the OR lounges and ERs and push their antibiotics.

Not too long ago, we had POA meetings, and then 2 day mini-meetings because there was too much to cover. I don't remember anyone complaining about the need for OT pay back then. NOW, we hear that we are overworked and deserve OT pay? Cripes, we don't DO anything anymore, other than sit on our ass and wait for a half hour to see someone that treats us with disdain, as if we have Dengue Fever or something.

Glad my best 19 years in this company are behind me.
 




I remember these days fondly. And those Rohrig guys used to get up early in the hospital to hound docs in the OR lounges and ERs and push their antibiotics.

Not too long ago, we had POA meetings, and then 2 day mini-meetings because there was too much to cover. I don't remember anyone complaining about the need for OT pay back then. NOW, we hear that we are overworked and deserve OT pay? Cripes, we don't DO anything anymore, other than sit on our ass and wait for a half hour to see someone that treats us with disdain, as if we have Dengue Fever or something.

Glad my best 19 years in this company are behind me.

So am I...

19 years ago there was no ESs of the world, many other DBMs promoted before their time. It is DBMs like the ESs of the world who ruined the work culture and drove current and former representatives to take action. The Class Action lawsuit was and is necessary to equalize the balance of power and money. Nineteen years ago, there was no CEO of Pfizer receiving a 44% base increase! Justice will be served when the US Supreme Court announces its favorable decision in June 2012. Pfizer will indeed have to open up its checking account because of the ESs of the world.
 




This is not true, the law firms will achieve no more than a 33.33% not the identified 50-70%.

No. Usually once a lawsuit is filed, the fee goes up to 40%. If it goes to trial, then it's 45%. Then add the costs to prosecute the caase and the plaaintiffs usually end up with 50% or less.

There is a caveat. Under labor laws, attorneys' fees are covered under the statutes, so the attorneys may get paid separately from the plaaintiffs' recovery pool.

It can get complicated.
 




Riddle " The maker sells it, the buyer doesn't use it and the user doesn't know it"


What is it?

The answer is a "coffin"; where gthe buyer is usually a spouse or relative of the deceased and the deceased is dead and doesn't care if the box is made out of cherry or maple. But everyone wants the best for for their lvoed one...but he/she is dead. That is wht cremation is better...just put my ashes in a small box, and go have beer on the money that you saved!

back to Pfizer.......my wife was victim of the Sears recommending auto-mobile services when nothing was wrong, and she did get a few coupons for future work, but she never went back there because they woudl problem jsut rip her off again....it was ingrained in their business practices....just like Pfizer's practice to always be selling off label...do what ever it takes to get the sales.

mixed thoughts here....for those that could not do reports or expensses in the field jsut wasn't working smartly.
 




So, is it too late to join? with the decreased number of reps across the industry, I will never get into Pharma, so I will take the chance to see if I win!! DO we have to swear in an affidavit that we worked over 40 hrs per week???? Well, sometime sit felt that way.
 




Pfizer and all Pharma companies need to change. Hire contract sales force in order to save money. Ask for so many signatures a week and don't care when and how the sales reps get them.

Phire most DM's and have 2-4 per state, depending on demographics.

Pfizer DM's are a huge waste of money.
 




Poster 18 here: Responding to poster 20

..To clarify my point, you are correct. Lawyers typically receive 33.33% of any amount awarded by the court as compensation. However, they are also awarded "Costs" in addition to the traditional 33.33. This is where they push the number way north of 50%. Surely, you have heard how lawyers bill... by the quarter hour. A firm with a case of this magnitue has multiple lawyers or even firms working it from every angle. Let's say they charge $500-1000/hr. (When the defendant has deep pockets, attorney fees get very costly.) It literally costs $125-250 to make a phone call lasting less than 15 minutes. Add up all the hours over the years this case has been slowly grinding its way through the courst system and the cost ends up in the 10's of millions of dollars. I think you get the picture.

Also, there are two types of damages Pfizer could be ordered to pay, Compensatory and/or Punitive damages. If they are ordered to pay punitive damages then they pay some regulatory agency (the Government). If ordered to pay compensatory damages then they pay reps. They could be ordered to pay a combination of both. So my point is that there will be a lot of vultures circling and deal making before reps get a big pay day.

To poster 21...I'm always amazed at how a person who knows nothing about law can proclaim someone else knows nothing about the law.

FYI..I am married to an attorney who has litigated several class action suits and I myself have been involved in a class action suit as a plaintiff. I was absolutely shocked after I read the seattlement agreement.... the lawyers walked away with all the money (millions of dollars) and I got a gift certificate although I had suffered significant financial damage.

Lastly, look at the recent settlement from the bank fraud class action suit. What did people who got screwed out of their homes get? $2,000 bucks?? or If you are stuck in a house that's upside down...Did you get a principle adjusted to reflect current market values?? No. You get up to 20,000 dollars which is a drop in the bucket if you are 100+k upside down.

Don't hold your breath waiting to get your back pay. Just move on.
 




Poster 18 here: Responding to poster 20

..To clarify my point, you are correct. Lawyers typically receive 33.33% of any amount awarded by the court as compensation. However, they are also awarded "Costs" in addition to the traditional 33.33. This is where they push the number way north of 50%. Surely, you have heard how lawyers bill... by the quarter hour. A firm with a case of this magnitue has multiple lawyers or even firms working it from every angle. Let's say they charge $500-1000/hr. (When the defendant has deep pockets, attorney fees get very costly.) It literally costs $125-250 to make a phone call lasting less than 15 minutes. Add up all the hours over the years this case has been slowly grinding its way through the courst system and the cost ends up in the 10's of millions of dollars. I think you get the picture.

Also, there are two types of damages Pfizer could be ordered to pay, Compensatory and/or Punitive damages. If they are ordered to pay punitive damages then they pay some regulatory agency (the Government). If ordered to pay compensatory damages then they pay reps. They could be ordered to pay a combination of both. So my point is that there will be a lot of vultures circling and deal making before reps get a big pay day.

To poster 21...I'm always amazed at how a person who knows nothing about law can proclaim someone else knows nothing about the law.

FYI..I am married to an attorney who has litigated several class action suits and I myself have been involved in a class action suit as a plaintiff. I was absolutely shocked after I read the seattlement agreement.... the lawyers walked away with all the money (millions of dollars) and I got a gift certificate although I had suffered significant financial damage.

Lastly, look at the recent settlement from the bank fraud class action suit. What did people who got screwed out of their homes get? $2,000 bucks?? or If you are stuck in a house that's upside down...Did you get a principle adjusted to reflect current market values?? No. You get up to 20,000 dollars which is a drop in the bucket if you are 100+k upside down.

Don't hold your breath waiting to get your back pay. Just move on.
You're wasting your time on them. These people kill me with their salivating over this supposed financial "windfall".
 




I think those of us who joined would take 10 bucks. I think we are more interested in Pfe and the rest of these companies who rode people like jockeys and dumped them on their ass to sweat and have to pay.
 




Costs are exclusive of attorneys' fees.

Punitive damages must be pled in the complaint, and only for tort cases. This is a contract dispute so not a tort case. The labor lawws may alloww for treble damages though. I don't know because I've never looked at the las or the pleadings in this case.

Lawyers typically bill on a .1 time scale, which is every 6 minutes.

Odds are this will settle and the lawyers ork out their pay in the settlement without ever having to show their billing records.

Yes, class action plaintiffs always get screwed. But they never have to pay for the litigation if they losee. If you sue indepenently, you pay for the attorneys' fees and costs if you lose, unless you work out a great deal with your attorneys.
 




You're wasting your time on them. These people kill me with their salivating over this supposed financial "windfall".

This isn't about collecting a "windfall". It's about Justice.
Like one member of the SC said, "the pharma industry has been given a gift". A gift of many years of hours of FREE LABOR.
 




oh come on, justice is our jobs. Where can you go make 100,000 dollars plus bonus and company car which pays for your gas and insurance.

Really, people who think they should get paid overtime should work for Mc Donalds. They should get paid overtime. We are so lucky to have jobs like this especially during this time in our industry.

Come on everyone knows that this is really just greed from Reps that lost their jobs. This is not retrobution for anything.

What are the Pharma companies to say, So sorry we paid you a huge salary gave you great benefits, bonus's, Ace Points to win extra stuff, free car and an education.

Sorry, but all you guys are doing is ruining it for the Reps who still have a job and are happy and proud to work this job and maket this kind of money.

Just go and get another job and worry about working not about the 100 bucks you might get if you win this very silly law suite!
 








oh come on, justice is our jobs. Where can you go make 100,000 dollars plus bonus and company car which pays for your gas and insurance.

Really, people who think they should get paid overtime should work for Mc Donalds. They should get paid overtime. We are so lucky to have jobs like this especially during this time in our industry.

Come on everyone knows that this is really just greed from Reps that lost their jobs. This is not retrobution for anything.

What are the Pharma companies to say, So sorry we paid you a huge salary gave you great benefits, bonus's, Ace Points to win extra stuff, free car and an education.

Sorry, but all you guys are doing is ruining it for the Reps who still have a job and are happy and proud to work this job and maket this kind of money.

Just go and get another job and worry about working not about the 100 bucks you might get if you win this very silly law suite!


From one who went from Pfizer to another Medical company, I have something to compare to. At my current employer, we aren't bullied by a District Manager to be in the field all day and do our paperwork at night. Plus the compensation is much better. We are treated like professional adults who don't have to feel paranoid about spending half a day in our office doing administrative tasks.

The only reps at Pfizer making 100K in salary are those who have been there for years. 100K when you are pulling in over 3 Million in Sales, is not even close to 10percent, which is what most sales organizations pay their reps.

Where Pfizer went wrong is allowing rougue managers to dictate when reps could do administration tasks (this was before WIFI) AT HOME after working a day in the field. Now it's easy to slip into a Starbucks or Panera Bread to do your paperwork on line. There were years of Dial Up and the situation was much different than it is today.

Also, not allowing reps to take a day off, if they worked a weekend symposia or meeting, was Wrong. As well as mandatory time during Pfizer POA meetings AFTER the meeting was over. Clearly taking advantage of reps.

Like the SC judge said, "the industry has been given a gift for many years" a gift of hours and hours of FREE Labor.

Pharma Reps are NOT sales people. Pharma Reps are not Managers. Pharma reps are message and sample delivery people. Very much like a telegram and Fedex person combined.

Many of us worked OVERTIME during launches of Liptor and Viagra. Bonuses were not that great even if you Blew Out the quota. Salaries averaged around 60K.