A Real Review of Applied Medical for Job Seekers

This is being done as a public service to those out there researching AM for a job opening. Reading these posts can get overwhelming b/c of all the blind anger or kool-aid drinking. And while one can come to a consensus conclusion with enough reading, I thought I would give a calm, rational, "no ax to grind" perspective from a current rep so that you know the real deal...

Before I took the job at AM, I deducted from cafepharma posts these basic tenants that have been true:

- AM is a good place to land a medical device job if you don't have MD experience but have a strong sales background. In other words, a good way to get into the industry. This is accurate, plus, this job requires that you get good at selling in the OR, and that is a skill other MD companies look for (as you plot your career). That being said, I don't know how recruiters etc value AM on the resume.

- AM is cheap. Oh, that they are (and we are not talking salary yet). You find out immediately in training b/c you share a room for 3 weeks with someone. I have read some on here saying "no big deal." I disagree. First, we are all adults, and I think that means that I shouldn't share a room with a complete stranger (opinion). However, the practical comes in when you see how fast flu/colds spread through a class. It's an intense 3 weeks and being distracted by illness should be avoided. And if your roommate gets sick, you will as well. Other areas of cheapness: no medical coverage during these 3 wks, so good luck with a flu. And there are countless other examples, but they all add up to one thing: AM is a cheap company (I have never heard anybody disagree about this point).

- AM salary & benefits are well below industry standards. Of course, there are a lot of variables here: territory, your work ethic, unique challenges, contracts. But on average: TMA's will make about $70. TM's about $80. This is probably the biggest challenge to reps over the next couple of years: how to make $$$. The industry is changing at a break neck pace. Contracts have become more important than Dr relationships/selling. AM has always done comp plans on growth. But in a lot of territories, growth is limited/not possible. They will need to comp on keeping existing biz. AM needs to do a much better job w focusing on contracts with these GPOs/IDNs. Second, benefits are weak. Med is expensive. 401K is a joke (I've run the numbers, it makes no sense to join their 401K with the miniscule "matching contribution.") Car allotment is fine. In total, below most other companies in industry.

- The corporate environment is good but has a high turnover. I would say that I like most everybody I work with and have met in AM- more than in any other company I've worked for. However, the adage: 'your mgr makes you or breaks you' will always be true. I've been lucky in this department. Turnover is high, probably to do with the above points. My mgr told me when I interviewed that most come into AM for 2-3 yrs and take their skills elsewhere for better compensation. Well, that is the case. Currently, there are 15% of total positions deemed "open." That means that AM hires and trains people at a slower pace than those that leave. How you interpret this is up to you b/c I think it can be both a good thing individually, but bad for the company as a whole.

Other points to consider that I have picked up:

- Energy. It's 1.5 yrs away at best. I could speculate as to why, but it would be only speculation. This is a much different market than what AM is used to. Contracts are everything here. There are a lot of high quality products. Unlike trocars, just b/c ours is less doesn't mean jack. The tech is changing too. Chordless? They weren't thinking that when they started developing ours. AM should also pay attention to turnover here too: yes, it's about contracts, but this is also an area reps and their relationships is vital to the total sell.
- Doing expense reports will drive you batty b/c they chicken hawk them. But as we have no expense account, there is not many items to expense!
- Not sure the grass is greener. Our major competitors are laying off reps. With the new MD tax looming, the MD job market is slow and I don't see a lot of hiring out there. AM should watch this, b/c once hiring does start, I know of a lot of good reps ready to leave. That will be interesting.
- Company's vision. I am unclear here b/c I think they are as well. The latest is to sell Advanced Fixation heavily into accounts as a long term plan to secure trocar biz. I think they overestimate the impact. They have commoditized (sp?) trocars but now it's about the technology? There is a lot of lack of "real world" understanding within the company. There is too much listening to engineers and too little listening to what the reps on the ground experience. Great, you made a 5mm clip applier & bag that only fits down an AM 5mm trocar. What if the account doesn't have AM trocars? SOL. Too much MGMT dictates of "if its not on contract, you should sell to Drs and have them demand it!" Yeah, it doesn't work that way anymore guys. But overall, I do think we have some quality devices. Covidien is easy to sell against b/c their rival products are weak. Ethicon makes good stuff, but can be sold against. But there is a bit of AM being too cute by half. They make it harder than it should be. But those aspects are in every company. One thing is for sure: the next two years will see a lot of changes in AM, but I don't think anybody has a crystal ball.

Hope this helps with your decision!

 

100% True, well said. They want rockstars and pay for shit. Just so you know recruiters know all about AppLied Medical and it won't help much but you will still be better than a pharma rep. I do have an ax to grind so take this for what it is worth. Forget medical sales, it's dying or in some cases dead. Find a tech company and work your way up. Medical lures you in with the high salaries but the quality of life sucks. Do yourself and your family a favor and save yourself from the trauma. Obama is going to put an end to the medical sales industry. Just my opinion...

 

Both of the above posts are pretty dead on. This company doesn't even lure you in with a high base salary. The truth of the matter is, medical sales is dying. I've been in med sales for almost 8 yrs and have done fairly well. I never made more than $160k,but my QOL is awesome, and this job isn't rocket science. It's actually probably one of the few companies out there that IS hiring if you want to put in the effort. The post from 2 above was correct in saying that there are alot of negatives between salary/turnover/crappy benefits etc etc etc. AM needs to at least ENTERTAIN listening to some of its more seasoned/valued reps if they want to ever retain anyone longer than 3 yrs. I can't tell you how many times i've talked to a doctor about our 5mm bag or clip applier about we have now made it possible to get a bigger 10 m/l clip down a 5 shaft and he's like "oh that's awesome! Can you bring it to my next case?" or "will it fit down an Ethicon 5mm trocar?" Trying to convince a general surgeon who does anywhere from 3-12 cases a WEEK he has to use a trocar with a balloon attached to the end of it just so the trocar doesn't pull out when he pulls the clip applier out is like trying to convince a crackhead that there's no hope in dope......NOT HAPPENING PEOPLE. And for those managers that read these boards, i'm not bitter because i've been here for awhile, but seriously, I wish they just the damn clip applier a LITTLE smaller and our trocars a LITTLE bigger. Problem solved! Surgeons don't give a damn about trocars anymore because like the above poster stated, AM has commoditzed this market

 

Then use the 8 or the 11. What's the fucking problem?

 

You really are a dumb f$*k. nobody uses our 8's and we're phasing out our 11's. this board is for SALES reps. silly engineers. go back to building ur Legos and whatever else u fools do in ur little cubicles. why can't anyone from RSM just listen to the surgeons and sales reps for once and stop trying to reinvent the wheel??? it's trocars Einstein, a surgeon shouldnt have to think about putting in a trocar (why is this so hard? Am I going to pierce this pt's bowel? Why won't the balloon inflat properly? Oh shit, the syringe just broke off again but it's MY fault ur company cant just design the trocars with a simple push button inflate/deflate option.....nooooo, I need to fiddle around with a syringe for 20 seconds when I should have had the damn the damn trocar in the pt already? Want me to keep going u assbag?)

 

oh yes, please keep going. you are sooooooo insightful. really? 20 seconds. how long do you fiddle around trying to reinsert it when it's pulled out? Please tell me of your wisdom oh master. i am nothing without your knowledge.

 

Like everywhere else, your experience is based on YOUR direct manager. If he/she is an awesome manager, you get along with them, exhibit the ability to succeed with quantifiable results, and provide the team with positive influence you WILL be successful and probably be on your way to advancement within the company and a long successful career. If you are a negative rep, not contributing the the growth and progress of your territory and district, and unable to utilize your talents and skill set to PRODUCE growth with quantifiable results, then you are probably not a great fit and should look at working for another company. This is a highly competitive sales arena here folks!! It is type A, strong willed winners!! If you do not fit that "stereotype" you WILL NOT, be successful in this field. PERIOD! So when you evaluate a company and it's management, be sure to look honestly within and make sure that you posess those strengths. If you do not, than the device field will eat you up and spit you out. There are thousands of "great reps" and "great people" out there that this field just does not suit very well, and that is OK. That is life, but if you do possess the "right stuff" then climb aboard and you will be off to an extremely lucrative and rewarding career.

 

I love it how you guys get into arguments about trocars. Its no more a medical device than a pair of latex free gloves.

Why would you have 3 weeks of training to sell trocars? Dopes

 

it's not 3 weeks to teach them, it's 3 weeks for you to learn it.

 

1) To answer your question, it's because Applied is one of the few medical device companies that will hire young kids with potential who have NO previous background in sales or have a biology-related degree. A fair portion of the training is anatomy and procedures that relate to our products, as well as hospital and OR protocol.
2) We actually DO have products other than trocars. Clip appliers, laparoscopic hand instruments, GelPort and GelPoint, and non-laparoscopic products like Alexis, and our vascular and urologic products.
3) Since many people in each class are new to not only the information but to sales, much of the training involves role play scenarios, so the first time someone experiences the pressure of handling an objection isn't when they're interfacing with a surgeon or someone else in the hospital. We certainly would be dopes if we sent people out there unprepared or with unrealistic expectations that all they have to do is spew information about their product like a drug rep and they will be successful.

My suggestion to you is before calling people dopes in the future, have some effing clue what you're talking about.

 

1) Training is on products only, procedures are taught on day 1 only
2) All products are a copy of a competitors product
3) Role plays are completely unrealistic and solely product driven, not much help when the clip applier starts shooting clips in a patient.
4) Please remember the company story, memorized word for word. This is supposed to be the culture of the company, possibly in mfg but certainly not in the sales org under TS/DG/JD.

 

1.) Procedures are taught for the 3 weeks leading up to training when I went through it. Did you forget that part?
2.) Fixation, fios, 5mm bag, gelport, gelpoint....to name a few? Those are copies? Of what?
3.) If you've ever done a role play at another company, you know that they're not designed to mimic what'd you actually say in the field. It's a way to gauge if you know the material before you spin it into your own format. Sounds like you've never done a role play before. And ya, they suck, but suck it up, everyone else does it at every other company that has a sales team.
4.) Company story is your first test to see if you can handle the training. that was the first fail someone got in my class. second was the entrance exam, third was their first test. Then they were gone.

Look at everything as a negative, and you're going to find any job shit.

 

When I was at Applied, the company story was something like out of Nazi Germany: I pledge allegiance, to Applied, to the only company that should produce trocars in this world. We are the market leader in screwing over its employees, in being the cheapest, and most hated company in OR's all across the world. We manufacture everything from recycled parts and thats why we can be so cheap! There is no such thing as an incentive here. Trips? You should be kissing the ground Said walks on because you don't know how lucky you are to be working for him. He lives lavishly in a big ass house while all his little minion worker bees struggle to get by. One nation, under Said, divisible with no liberty or justice for anyone.

Do they still require anyone who goes through training to remember the Pledge of Said WORD FOR WORD? That had to be the most ridiculous crock of shit I ever heard. When I asked MJ if we really need to get every word right (because not everyone talks the same way and I thought it might sound better if it was my own words), she told me it had to be exactly as Said would say it. Does the one fruitcake who thinks his sh$t don't stink still run IT? If he's still there, stay far away my friends....

 

Haha. Sounds like somewon had a widdy biddy pwoblem rememowing a wittle stowy. Poor babwy......

 

Jerry, is that you? Did you shave that ridiculous thing off your chin yet?

 

So childish, why does Applied sue other companies when their sales leave?

 

2016 and nothing has changed!!! Greatness

 

You've obviously not been to a real company's training. Where they have real clinical trainers like surgeons, you know? They come speak because they respect the company. Secondly the training use real labs in real hospitals because they are respected. They don't have to build a fake OR and what not because they are welcome in the hospital. Anyway main point about training- if you are going to sell products like applied... You can't cram those 20 products into 3 weeks there's no way. Be a little more structured, thought out, and logical about the training is all. It's not about the role plays etc. That's expected. Training shouldn't be about stress and test taking. It should be positive and focused around actual learning.

 

FOR POTENTIAL APPLICANTS TO APPLIED, BE WARNED! The environment is very toxic. Especially on the west coast. The director of the west could possibly be the most miserable human ever spoken to. Here is all you need to know, he's gone through more managers (and an unreal number of reps) than anyone else. MV is the first to throw his managers/reps under the bus if numbers dip, yet takes credit for any success.

I used to work here and still speak to some of the reps there still. He's created a negative environment in an already difficult market for the reps. He came from the east coast where he apparently acted the same way. Managers/reps couldnt stand to work for him and left. Somehow he got moved back west and has been doing the same since.

He tries to intimidate, never motivates, is completely clueless as to what type of numbers are attainable, doesnt listen to advice from the field, and cares nothing for those who work for him. His only relationship is with DG which everyone says is why he still has a job. But if Applied wonders why the sky high turnover in the west, is begins and ends with MV. It's too bad as there are some great people that have left and are planning to leave just because he's insufferable to work for. If anyone has even seen him smile once, I'd love to hear...its too bad